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<  Scooter Workshop  ~  CPI 6 wire Stator @ wires on trigger coil?

Twisted Tuner
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:36 am Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Posts: 20
Hey guys hope someone can help me out with this one. I did ALOT of searching in last 2 days and only more confused.
I have a motor I picked up for my next build. The motor is stamped CPI 50c+550781*
It has a 6 wire stator in it. Any idea what this motr came in (so I can find a wiring diagram)
My bike is a 2005 cpi tracker/jv50 I have motor in and running Very Happy But not charging properly. I am running rear LED turn and tail/stop lights. I have 2 of the same regulator/rectifires that are stock on the bike. (5 wire)
Hope someone can tell me what each wire from the stator does?
I have a 2 wires on the trigger coil.
White/red and White/green
Then on the exiter coil (odd one with wrapping)
Red/black on the right side and Black on the left.
Then going clockwise the
Yellow/red
White

What wires are supposed to go to the reg/rectifire? And should I be using a 4 wire (zuma) stator?

I have pics but don't know how to attatch them, if someone can help with that as well please.


Last edited by Twisted Tuner on Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
2005 CPI Oliver50 "Oliver Twist"
2009 Xingyue 150cc Leaning trike "I Lean"
1985 Honda Gyro TG50 Leaning 50cc trike. "I Lean2"
1978 Motobecane 50V Moped, Mini Cafe Racer.
1985 Honda Camino Moped
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wireburn
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:39 am Reply with quote
Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 626 Location: Muskegon, MI USA
2-stroke? Haven't seen that stator before, sorry!

I'd drop in a Zuma stator.

-Mike

_________________
2007 Ruckus BIG BORE
2002 Metropolitan II w/Ruckus Swingarm
2006 Yamati Strada RX8 103cc LC stroker, PG power pipe, Keihin PWK28, Custom Intake, V-Force3 MX Reeds, Polini 14/41, Malossi OR, DC conversion (Sold!)
2000 Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
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Twisted Tuner
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:56 am Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Posts: 20
Sorry, Yes its 2 stroke. Minerali clone I guess. If I remember correctly this motor has a 13mm or 14mm piston pin. (been awhile since built the engine up)

So my best guess was the this
Yellow/red > is the e choke wire ONLY?
White > runs to regulator
Black > is To chassis ground Or to Regulator?
Red/black >is the wire that powers the CDI
White/red > is the wire that tell CDI to spark
But what is with th extra wire on the trigger coil? (White/green)
Right now it appears to be hooked to the regulator ( Ithink I did that while installing)

Then the regulator having 5 wires thows me off as well. What I know about them is they need 2 ac wires in and the n have a neg and pos. to battery. What it looks like is that maybe the wire that runns taillight and horn etc. is attatched to the regulator AFTER the key. (only sees 12v DC with key one) But does this mean that the power has to go in to regulator? or does the regulator help feed power on this circut as well (2 DC outputs)?

_________________
2005 CPI Oliver50 "Oliver Twist"
2009 Xingyue 150cc Leaning trike "I Lean"
1985 Honda Gyro TG50 Leaning 50cc trike. "I Lean2"
1978 Motobecane 50V Moped, Mini Cafe Racer.
1985 Honda Camino Moped
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wireburn
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:47 am Reply with quote
Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 626 Location: Muskegon, MI USA
Likely 10 or 12mm piston pin.

Sounds like you have those wire assignments right. I would guess the other wire coming off the pickup is a separate ground. See if it is common to the other ground and/or the case when installed.

If you have the yellow and white going into the regulator, you should get 13+VDC out the red wire if everything is working correctly. You got me hangin' on the 5th wire, sorry!

-Mike

_________________
2007 Ruckus BIG BORE
2002 Metropolitan II w/Ruckus Swingarm
2006 Yamati Strada RX8 103cc LC stroker, PG power pipe, Keihin PWK28, Custom Intake, V-Force3 MX Reeds, Polini 14/41, Malossi OR, DC conversion (Sold!)
2000 Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
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Twisted Tuner
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:13 am Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Posts: 20
I remember having to find a bearing with a (not normal 10 or 12mm O.D. and I think the piston on the kit I am using is a 10mm pin). Is it possible its a GTR bottom end?
had no jug or piston in it when I got it. The bearing was a Bitch to find, think a buddy ended up finding one from a Stihl chainsaw.
The crank had gone on the original, scored this one with what appears to be much beefier crank/case/trans, ect. Hope someone can Help ID it.

Ok you mentiond h Yellow wire. In my case you mean the yellow/red That is powering the e choke. "AC" & my white wire go to regulator? I will be running manual choke soon anyway. = Less draw on bike right?

The black is Ground? Same as some diagrams that use green as a ground?
If I hook it up the way you mention which is basiclly how a zuma is wired would I need to find a zuma regulator?
I heard some people mention that the zuma uses the same coil to make spark and charge? Not a100% on what that means though.

It almost seems as if this stator could be better. If we figure it out.

_________________
2005 CPI Oliver50 "Oliver Twist"
2009 Xingyue 150cc Leaning trike "I Lean"
1985 Honda Gyro TG50 Leaning 50cc trike. "I Lean2"
1978 Motobecane 50V Moped, Mini Cafe Racer.
1985 Honda Camino Moped
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wireburn
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:24 am Reply with quote
Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 626 Location: Muskegon, MI USA
Man, I wish I could help you better. Just never had to deal with this setup before.

-Mike

_________________
2007 Ruckus BIG BORE
2002 Metropolitan II w/Ruckus Swingarm
2006 Yamati Strada RX8 103cc LC stroker, PG power pipe, Keihin PWK28, Custom Intake, V-Force3 MX Reeds, Polini 14/41, Malossi OR, DC conversion (Sold!)
2000 Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
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Twisted Tuner
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:33 am Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Posts: 20
Did check last night actually.
wasn't sure exactly whatto test to where but here is what I found .
Ground (motor case) to white/red > X
Ground (motor case) to white/green > X
white/red to white/green > .475 (on 2k scale)

Ground (motor case) to Yellow/red > 1.2 (on 200 scale)
Ground (motor case) to white > 1.3 (on 20 scale)
Ground (motor case) to Black/red > X

So I have the result but lost as to what to do with it?

I thought this was the schematic for my bike. It was the closest I could find. But shows a 5wire regultor. You can see what I mean about the brown (running lights)wire is attatched to it. Wierd thing is on my regulators, the wire changes on the regulator side of the plug. Where the brown wire runs to Center terminal the wire is black. But then where the black wire is supposed to be it is green. (also used as grounds sometimes)

Wires on the bike side of plug match the schematic. Same for stator harness


_________________
2005 CPI Oliver50 "Oliver Twist"
2009 Xingyue 150cc Leaning trike "I Lean"
1985 Honda Gyro TG50 Leaning 50cc trike. "I Lean2"
1978 Motobecane 50V Moped, Mini Cafe Racer.
1985 Honda Camino Moped
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wireburn
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:21 am Reply with quote
Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 626 Location: Muskegon, MI USA
The yellow/red and white to ground readings are way too low. Sounds like your stator is toast. Those wires, if they're what I think they are, should be low resistance to each other and high resistance to ground.

-Mike

_________________
2007 Ruckus BIG BORE
2002 Metropolitan II w/Ruckus Swingarm
2006 Yamati Strada RX8 103cc LC stroker, PG power pipe, Keihin PWK28, Custom Intake, V-Force3 MX Reeds, Polini 14/41, Malossi OR, DC conversion (Sold!)
2000 Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
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Twisted Tuner
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:01 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Posts: 20
Possibly. Yellow/red is to my e-choke an it seems to work fine. The the charging system on original motor went to crap as well. This was due to the bolts coming loose, letting the wires on the stator get damaged.
I did try to install a zuma 5 wire stator but it also never charged right. This is why I have a extra regulator now to because I thought it had fried.

Now few thing I tried yesteday was cut the red and black wire on bike sid of reg. harness, test dc power out. and also test dc from red to chassis & neg battery terminal. Well with the black wire(bike side) cut the engine is hard to start and when it did it ran odd and died hard (clunk). reconnect the black and fired and idles fine. I started it then disconnected it tested with Neg on tester to the wire from regulator and the red or red @ + battery terminal Get 14v or so, and goes up and down with idle.

But eventually dies and won't start unless I reconnect the black to ground? Or back to cut wire(shows ground). If this wire is connected to ground then the voltage is low. Alsoif he regulator is unplugged completely the bike will not start at all(no spark).
So can I do this for testing. Avoid bike wiring and just take spare regulator mount on frame near the stator. run the red and black from regulator to a fully charged battery w/fuse. and run my white & yellow/red into it from stator. ?
I think half of the issue is the existing bike wiring. If this basic circut proves to charge, then I can start from there rewire bike.

_________________
2005 CPI Oliver50 "Oliver Twist"
2009 Xingyue 150cc Leaning trike "I Lean"
1985 Honda Gyro TG50 Leaning 50cc trike. "I Lean2"
1978 Motobecane 50V Moped, Mini Cafe Racer.
1985 Honda Camino Moped
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wireburn
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:34 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 626 Location: Muskegon, MI USA
Sounds like the same symptoms of running without a proper ground. I would try lifting the black wire, but make sure you've got a good motor-chassis-battery ground. Typically find a good paint-free connection on the frame and run large gauge wires from there to the motor and to the battery. Sounds like you're getting close.

-Mike

_________________
2007 Ruckus BIG BORE
2002 Metropolitan II w/Ruckus Swingarm
2006 Yamati Strada RX8 103cc LC stroker, PG power pipe, Keihin PWK28, Custom Intake, V-Force3 MX Reeds, Polini 14/41, Malossi OR, DC conversion (Sold!)
2000 Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
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Twisted Tuner
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:12 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Posts: 20
Sorry wireburn, What doyou mean by "lifting the black wire"? @ the regulator? or stator or battery?
And "good chassis ground" to the battery ?

I know on some systems like the mopeds ALL DC lights have to be grounded to the black on reg/rectifire. Not chassis. so thats why I thought of going only to the battery with a test regulator red and black direct to battery.
also with black @ regulator cut (not going to chassis ground it seems to put out power or proper dc power.

_________________
2005 CPI Oliver50 "Oliver Twist"
2009 Xingyue 150cc Leaning trike "I Lean"
1985 Honda Gyro TG50 Leaning 50cc trike. "I Lean2"
1978 Motobecane 50V Moped, Mini Cafe Racer.
1985 Honda Camino Moped
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Twisted Tuner
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Posts: 20
That stupid white/green wire on the trigger is pissing me off Mad LOL!
So if the white/green an the white/red are off the same coil then techically the white/green could be used to pulse the CDI instead of white/red?
The red/black is for sure the one that goes to CDI (no arguments there?)
CDI has red/black with the built connector as well.
CDI also has the white/red with bullet connector. Then a orange and a black on a 2 wire plug. Also the CDI has the black/white for a ground to kill type wire (not zuma)
I really wonder about switching the white/green and white/red, Can I hurt anything (CDI)?

And will/should a bike run if the regulator is unplugged? I understand these cdi boxes to be AC the power comes from my red/black and ground? This is why they will RUN without a battery connected. (not good to do though, at least have a dead battery connected so you don't overpower the regulator. Lights will only soak up so much current.)
The white and yellow wires have no effect on the spark am I wrong?
So It almost seems that by cutting the black wire wire @ regulator the CDI isn't getting enough or runs out of power. Causing the bike to die. (No spark)
At the same time this frees up the draw? giving me 12.5v-14v again... Rolling Eyes
ehem : excuse me
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! LOL

_________________
2005 CPI Oliver50 "Oliver Twist"
2009 Xingyue 150cc Leaning trike "I Lean"
1985 Honda Gyro TG50 Leaning 50cc trike. "I Lean2"
1978 Motobecane 50V Moped, Mini Cafe Racer.
1985 Honda Camino Moped
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Twisted Tuner
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:09 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Posts: 20
So I did some searching on CPI scoots.
This is my CVT cover on the Mystery motor.


And This is a CPI Aragon 50? Confused

Notice anything same?
I guess The CVT cover could be used on other bikes but the GTR & oliver have different covers so maybe I am on to something.
So a Agaron? Must be european bike? maybe I scored somthing sweet after all?

_________________
2005 CPI Oliver50 "Oliver Twist"
2009 Xingyue 150cc Leaning trike "I Lean"
1985 Honda Gyro TG50 Leaning 50cc trike. "I Lean2"
1978 Motobecane 50V Moped, Mini Cafe Racer.
1985 Honda Camino Moped
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Twisted Tuner
Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:38 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Sep 2012 Posts: 20
This is a CPI Aragon diagram.


WTF is that CDI box 6 WIRES!! And Then looky here they use a 4 pin reg./rectfire.
My stator has the white/green but they show a blue/white kinda close to white/green (same pickup maybe) like my white/red? Also they show a green/red to the e-choke must be same as my yellow/red?
Regulator wiring looks alot like zuma though.

Also this afternoon I checked continuity chassis to neg battery terminal. Good then I turned key on... Went AWAY!!!?????? Started to un plug things to see if comes back. Head light harness unplugged and key on continuity returned? Added a large cable from chassis to neg terminal, No change and still won't start if cut black wire. Or the white/green from the harness. That one puzzled me?

_________________
2005 CPI Oliver50 "Oliver Twist"
2009 Xingyue 150cc Leaning trike "I Lean"
1985 Honda Gyro TG50 Leaning 50cc trike. "I Lean2"
1978 Motobecane 50V Moped, Mini Cafe Racer.
1985 Honda Camino Moped
View user's profile Send private message
wireburn
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:14 am Reply with quote
Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 626 Location: Muskegon, MI USA
YOU CAN DO IT!! Laughing

-Mike

_________________
2007 Ruckus BIG BORE
2002 Metropolitan II w/Ruckus Swingarm
2006 Yamati Strada RX8 103cc LC stroker, PG power pipe, Keihin PWK28, Custom Intake, V-Force3 MX Reeds, Polini 14/41, Malossi OR, DC conversion (Sold!)
2000 Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
View user's profile Send private message

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